The search engine optimization industry is known to rally around a fallen comrade one moment and in the next instant, eat one of its own. It’s considered a mercy killing needed to save SEO reputations.
It’s never a good idea for an SEO to try and fool another SEO – or a few hundred thousand of them.
We’ve seen the dramatic rise, fall and crash of several SEO companies and individuals. Some have managed to return from the dead but they’re a mere sliver of their previous rock and roll self. Fame is brutal. Some SEO professionals, in an effort to keep the industry viable and reputable, will not hesitate to shove misguided souls out into the arena for inspection or beheading. The latest stake driven into the heart of an SEO occurred when Edward Lewis took on Charles Preston.
It would appear as though Mr. Preston, a rather handsome looking dude, feels as though everyone in the SEO industry knows who he is. As a businessman, with several accomplishments noted in his bio, he wants to tackle a known business need. He has identified that many companies have hired SEO companies and been disappointed by the results. Mr. Preston feels he has the expertise to be able to tell a company considering hiring an SEO whether or not the service is viable. For a monthly fee of $99, an SEO firm can submit their company to a series of questions and tests to be sure they’re qualified for being hired. Mr. Preston even offers a “Verified SEO” badge as an official trustmark.
Edward Lewis carved out such a niche for himself with his free SEO Consultants site back in 2002. Did he feel threatened?
When Preston attempted to defend his website to Lewis, he was unsuccessful. No one was going to defend someone claiming to be an industry leader and yet nobody at Sphinn had ever heard of him. It didn’t take long for the angry reaction to stop Mr. Preston’s plans. He removed the web site. Of course, if you read the comments, it was suggested that this a case of “linkbait” or a very well executed April Fool’s joke.
It didn’t matter if you were the better known person in this situation. Readers were all over the place with opinions and responses. It was like watching somebody pop a balloon and the thing flies hysterically around the room.
One of the mistakes I see SEO’s do is they make claims about their expertise but provide no third-party, objective resources to back it up. I can submit articles by the thousands to article sites but that act alone does not make me an SEO expert. That makes me an article writer. There are thousands of them. Weak claims are part of the marketing process. Certain statements appear to sound good, when they really have no meat. To try and pull off any fake “I’m an expert” tactics to a bunch of marketers is…well, writing your own reputation death sentence.
Preston claimed to have the SEO expertise required to judge the practices of others. In the SEO industry, several organizations exist that had hoped to do this very thing. There are colleges and certification courses. A badge offered by an unknown company doesn’t cut it. What does work with this industry are referrals. The more partnerships and relationships you build, the more likely you are to have proven your skills. I don’t refer anyone that I haven’t worked with. This means much more to the client.
To put a badge on someone’s work illustrated just how much Preston doesn’t know about this industry. It’s not a matter of checking to see if someone got page rank for a web site. Preston claims to have gotten 3000 sites to rank high. So what? The real trick is to keep the pages up there, despite all the new competition. And of course, do they convert? Do the sites do anything productive? Do people return to them? You just can’t slap a badge on that kind of stuff.
It was interesting to watch Preston march into the brick wall and keep playing his drums.
When Charles Preston said he was a well known SEO and yet nobody had ever heard of him, it was time for the cats to play with this little toy mouse. Even Danny Sullivan was surprised at the high number of comments. It was his tweet remarking on it that led me to see what the buzz was about.
Was this a case of the affluent reacting to a newbie encroaching on their turf? It could appear that way. The SEO industry has a reputation for eating its young. It’s as if there is a silent code. If you muck up your entry into the field, you’re left with nothing but a bruised ego and a worthless domain. It may seem cruel, but to truly survive in the search engine marketing industry means that you don’t open your mouth unless you know precisely what you’re talking about. The mere second you show any sign of not knowing your stuff, while at the same time presenting yourself as an expert, you’ll be called on it. Charles Preston made some strong claims and tried to take money by offering a service that plays on “the fear of hiring SEO’s”.
Edward Lewis did what someone who expects excellence from the industry would do. He presented the impostor to the masses. He made his case. The response was reader outrage and then dialog with Charles Preston when he arrived to defend himself. In his mind, I think he was trying to put into place some kind of accountability system for SEO.
However, he didn’t pass his own test.
@Edward I completely disagree with you, but that’s not very important. What is important is whether or not an individual can pursue a dream in the face of (very strong) criticism and perhaps bullying.
You are free to love Sphinn and Cre8pc communities if you like, hold them up as standards bodies, or as evidence of industry capabilities. I am free to note the opposite. I am also free to NOT argue with you should I decide it is a huge waste of time — and my ignoring you and your criticisms would have no bearing on the success of a project (ignoring any interference or other harassment that could indeed impact success — I am not assuming you would do anything like that).
Some in this thread cite SEMPO as a worthy professional association in the SEM industry. I would not agree with that, for many reasons. Same for the rest — it may be very strong opinion, but it is opinion nonetheless.
Submit himself to you for a review? Why would anyone ever do that? He should focus on his business, and only deal with you when you cross the legal lines of business interference or perhaps civil conspiracy should you inappropriately rally support from your friends to interfere. It’s business.
I laugh when I read that the SEO industry operates successfully by trusted referral. For many, that is as protectionist a statement as could be made! Again, though… irrelevant for an entreprenuer looking to innovate. He can “just do it” and let the market decide…. it isn’t material here if Charles has failed twice. He can still try again, or someone else can.
Here we can queue the “first they ignore you, then they fight you.. then you win” bit.
Remember when I said SEO’s eat their young? They kinda eat each too sometimes.
@MikeM wrote: “Not to detract from Mr. Preston’s press parade or anything, but I’m STILL waiting for “third-party, objective resources” about the SEO industry to appear.”
At the core of this, for me, is a topic we have revisited several times a year since the dawn of SEO. What is the industry standard? Sub-levels would be things like “Who decides?” and “How do you prove that you’ve met them?”
CP and EL can and will state their opinions. At this point in the game, both can be expected to defensive. I understand that it’s hard to know when to stop the discussion when you feel misunderstood. EL has more public history than CP, so therefore, we know a bit more about what motivates him and what he cares about. For him, validation is a standards principle. He and I know my sites do not meet that standard. EL has not thrown me to the wolves, though I’m sure he’d love to. I view EL as the teacher I hate but if I follow his instructions, something I’m doing will improve. I’ve had many bosses and teachers who force me to grow and I appreciate them.
CP, you lost the popularity contest already. Rather than remain here and continue to defend yourself, I would support your efforts to step back and work towards getting more experience in the various aspects of search engine optimization and Internet marketing. I invite you to join Cre8asiteforums.com, where you can find both education and peers to share ideas with. Had you shared your ideas there, the more experienced members could have helped you. For free.
@john andrews & twimc
Ya know man, I have lost about 10lbs and a lot of sleep over all of this. That’s not a ploy for sympathy it’s just the latest news coming out of the smoking crater that was once my reputation. It’s been a humbling experience, which again, I think I probably needed to “some” degree as we all do from time to time.
Your suggestion that I become some kind of leader or champion at this point seems pretty far fetched, although I very much appreciate the sentiment and your contribution to the discussion thus far. Thank you.
That’s just not what I wanted to be. I am an entrepreneur at heart and an introvert in personality and all I set out to do was offer a service that I thought would fill a need in the market. Nothing earth shattering.
You all must understand that you do in fact wield a great power. More power than maybe you previously had thought. People and businesses are made and destroyed here in the infosphere.
Alvin Toffler said, way back in 1980,
“What is inescapably clear, whatever we choose to believe, is that we are altering our infosphere fundamentally…we are adding a whole new strata of communication to the social system. The emerging Third Wave infosphere makes that of the Second Wave era – dominated by its mass media, the post office, and the telephone – seem hopelessly primitive by contrast”
It appears that the SEM community are the gatekeepers of the infosphere. People pay members of this community to make or break their reputations, careers and businesses in this new era. That’s a lot of power people. It will only increase as old media continues to die.
What happened with my situation is proof positive of that. Moreover it shows how deadly quick it can happen with a concerted effort by skilled professionals. It’s a little scary actually.
@john andrews – you said,
“Seriously… you started by noting the marketplace needed it, and end by admitting the industry does a good job providing by itself. Really?”
To be honest, in some respects I do still think that it might have had legs in terms of how it might help the average Joe consumer figure out who is getting results.
At this point there is no way in hell I would attempt to revive Verified unless there was some consensus from the community that it would be a valuable service. Could it be tuned into something worthwhile? Maybe if it was a group effort perhaps. I really don’t know. I do know that this industry as a whole has reputation problems from the consumer’s point of view based on my own experience and whether or not we are doing a good enough job of managing that in a way THEY understand, is up for discussion among the members of the SEM community and the business community at large.
@MikeTek – thank you. I agree wholeheartedly.
@cre8pc
Kim, again I appreciate the forum you have provided here. I’m not much for popularity contests anyway. My intention here was to take responsibility for the mistakes I made and to clear up the confusion about what I was trying to do and simple self preservation.
I threw up a blog over at the old verified domain if anyone is interested.
Cheers,
C.
@pageoneresults BTW you still have me listed in your seo directory, despite my expressed decision not to comply with your “requirements” for inclusion. Why is that? Does my listing help your directory succeed, even if I choose not to adhere to your requirements? Do I blab in public about why I choose not to be included in your directory?
Or worse, will I now disappear from your directory, or perhaps even worse, will you insert my old neglected wordpress blog so it shows up as one of your red-flagged validation disasters… again suggesting you (ab)use me to your advantage. I hope not.
Slippery slope it is. I’d rather see an honest attempt at VerifiedSEO than a deceptive attempt at publishing an objective directory. I’m not saying your directory is not objective… I haven’t bothered to research that (nor have I bothered to focus my attentions on the infamous seomoz recommendations pages). I’m simply noting the slippery slope.
For the record, the comments here have appeared (for me) in spurts and out of order. Moderation is probably to blame, but the fact should be considered when reading the thread.
John, please do expand on the above, where exactly is your site listed?
“BTW you still have me listed in your SEO Directory.”
You’re correct about that John Andrews.
My site which was listed in SEO Consultants since the beginning was recently removed, presumably because it doesn’t validate to arbitrary W3C specifications. At least I presume this is why it was removed, I never received any personal notification of it getting removed. It was just gone one day.
At any rate, I would have refused to be bullied by Edward into complying with something that has nothing to do with SEO just to be listed in his directory. It seems only those who buy ads there are prominently featured anyway, so my company never benefited from our free listing. Nothing lost, nothing gained.
John, I’ll let you know right now that if you wish to take the above path, you’re welcome to do so. Just don’t fabricate things to meet your objectives. I am well prepared to discuss all of this at the public level.
“My site which was listed in SEO Consultants since the beginning was recently removed, presumably because it doesn’t validate to arbitrary W3C specifications. At least I presume this is why it was removed, I never received any personal notification of it getting removed. It was just gone one day.”
Jill, you’re lying and I’m going to prove to the readers here that you are. I have everything in writing as to why you were removed.
“At any rate, I would have refused to be bullied by Edward into complying with something that has nothing to do with SEO just to be listed in his directory. It seems only those who buy ads there are prominently featured anyway, so my company never benefited from our free listing. Nothing lost, nothing gained.”
Jill, if there is one person in this industry that can light my fire, it is you. I tremble as I reply to this. You should be prepared too now that you’ve taken the plunge.
http://www.SEOConsultants.com/validation/history/highrankings.com
You were removed because your site failed miserably from a markup perspective. So much so, that it may even be affecting the SEO, something you should know since you do Technical SEO Audits.
No fabrication going on, and no agenda. I am not an extortionist nor bully.
I often don’t agree with Jill on SEO issues. I do know that validation helps with SEO (but probably not in a direct, ranking-factors kind of way). I love it for what it delivers…which is why my UpperLeftPlacement.com site validated long before you started your red/green crusade. I also know when it fails to deliver. Validation is not the discussion here.
“Validation is not the discussion here.”
Ummm, I certainly didn’t interject validation into this discussion. That would be Jill and yourself. I’m just opining at the moment.
And Jill, there is a reply to your comment awaiting to be published. You were given plenty of warning about your removal from the directory. I’ll be happy to make all of that public domain if you wish? Careful, apparently you feel our Member Announcements are not worth reading. If you would have read the last one, you would have know you were at risk for removal.
Like I said, doesn’t matter to me whether I’m in or out, so I’ll shut up now rather than hijack Kim’s post any further!
“Like I said, doesn’t matter to me whether I’m in or out, so I’ll shut up now rather than hijack Kim’s post any further!”
No Jill, I’m not going to let you get away with a drive-by like that. You want to take a shot at the SEO Consultants Directory? And make a baseless statement like the above? That’s fine. You should be prepared to deal with the fallout of such statements. I will make the announcement public that you failed to read. I will also make your review public so you can see why you were removed. Agreed?
No, you can make statements like that and not expect me to present my side of the discussion.
“No fabrication going on, and no agenda. I am not an extortionist nor bully.”
Where is this listing you state that I’ve not removed and have used as your fabricated statement above? Yes, you fabricated that. And then Jill added more fabric.
wow.. hostile much?
It’s your directory. If you want to find me in your directory, look it up. I did a Google search. Google is my friend.
“wow.. hostile much?”
Where do you see hostility John? That would be passion you’re experiencing. I don’t see where I’ve been hostile yet. You are pulling the right strings though so, keep tugging.
John, did you click on that link you found in Google? Where did it go?
I’ll get hostile if you continue to state untruths. What value would I get out of piggybacking a listing for your company? I’d be real careful where you plan on taking this.
And Jill, I’ll have a site review for you sometime this week. An SEO Technical Audit as you state you do. Let’s compare notes. I’ll also explain to the readers why your listing and quite a few other were removed. You can’t continue to produce crap code like that and call yourself an SEO, that needs to stop.
I’ll rest my case right here. The path is all yours, Edward. It is your destiny to pursue, not mine.
I am just checking back to see how this discussion is going. I am glad to see that it is staying right on topic and not looking like a 1998 bulletin board getting soured by digs on each other’s character. Carry on, you are all doing just a great job. o_O
I hope you are all finding this to be really productive and that it will help you be a better SEO. These comments should really help everybody make a squillion dollars today.
Kim, I wish to apologize for being allowed to go off course with this topic. I got reeled right into that. Hook, line, and sinker.
But, I won’t apologize for any comments I may have made. There’s no hostility there. You see, I’ll be the first one to stand up for the integrity of our directory and its operation. Both of you threw pebbles and I rightfully responded.
We can still be friends though. Virtually.
Oops. Looks like Ed is off his meds again. I don’t claim to be a website developer. Never have never will. But he knows that.
I see this all the time – those who talk about how much they know about SEO, Google and rankings, but once you review just one site they’ve worked on it shows you their true colors, how much they really know, and they’re level of expertise in the industry.
Okay so yeah Pageoneresults’ idea got trashed and maybe had issues – but gotta hand him the win in the flame war above. I read every one of those posts and like it or not that one site did validate TERRIBLY (not at all really) and the other dude never did show that there was any listing there outside of maybe a google cached result which if anyone knows anything – that’s not on Pageone’s head.
Pageone for the win… even though I agree his site idea was a bad idea (but hey he admitted that himself).
Good SEO companies don’t need to be verified by a 3rd party, they’re verified by referrals from their current clients. Most likely companies that don’t deliver results and have nothing to show to a potential lead will use “badges”. That’s why Entrepreneur magazine recently called 80% of SEOs out there as nothing short of scam artists. If you want a real, authentic badge, have your clients give a brief video testimonial and throw it up on your web site.
So you know you need to get your website on page one of Google to get more business, but how do you choose an effective SEO company that won’t take your money and deliver no results?
Edward, Make sure to never add Google to your directory, they currently have 46 invalid markups!
There’s a lesson to be learned from this. When you claim to be an expert about something, at least follow your own rules. LOL
Perhaps all SEO experts (or anyone claiming to be an expert) should be humble like Isaac Newton.
“What we know is a drop, what we don’t know is an ocean.” (Isaac Newton)
I guess that’s a “Happy Easter” to everyone, then? ;O)
Wow. There’s some serious hostility going on here. As a young SEO, I’m almost afraid to leave a comment here for fear of have my site torn up and sent out for a public flogging. But I’ll press on…
I will say that I’ve had a similar experience with other SEO’s before, and it seems that Kim is right that we “eat our own young.”
On a positive note, I will admit that this part of Kim’s article hit home with me:
“What does work with this industry are referrals.”
I think that this advice is well-founded, and nothing is better than making personal connections with people and helping their site get better from an SEO perspective.
When you’ve helped someone enough that they’re willing to put their personal stamp on you – that’s the reward.