Recently I received an email by a company pitching their new product. I get these nearly every day. Sometimes they arrive specifically to me and address me by name. The one that came the other day was quite different.
The email came addressed to 51 people in the SEO industry, each one of them assigned a number. The email began, “Dear SEO Consultants”. I recognized most of the names on the list by their email addresses. The content regarded an RFP on how they could advertise their “concept” software on our web site properties. One of the ways I know that nobody researched me before emailing something like this is they don’t specify which web site they’re referring to. I own several, plus a global forum and don’t put ads on most of them. I determined my personal value to the company was of no importance. I wasn’t interested in their offer and stuck the email in the trash.
I receive “can you look at” and “would you consider” emails nearly every day. I’m more likely to respond if they are presented professionally, in much the same way job seekers are expected to present their resume and letter of introduction. There are expectations by those of us who receive inquiries, especially unsolicited ones, that require our taking time out of the day to review and respond to.
One of the recipients on the list was shocked at how unprofessional it was to send out an email that included patent information, password access to their company’s application and seeking capitol investors. The company claimed to have 10 years experience with the Internet and technology. We each should have been given the respect of being contacted on an individual basis. Since this did not occur, someone replied with an angry message to the company and CC’d everyone on it.
What ensued after that was a rollicking back and forth of some hilarious banter between 50% of the recipients of the original email. The writer of the email that contacted everyone WAS NOT COPIED IN ON THOSE EMAILS. They had no idea what was going on. There was no ganging up on the company. What transpired was a funny dialog by folks who got a kick out of being assigned a number and joking about their “rank” on the email list.
The company did respond to the first angry response with another email. This time it was in the form of an apology, and again, carbon copied to 51 SEO’s rather than blind copied. The fault was that “my assistant did it”. Then, the request for a proposal was presented again. A CEO that passes the buck and blame on an employee rather than accepting full responsibility for the goof up was not accepted by everyone. Others on the list didn’t care and never participated in any dialog.
Enter SEOMoz
A blog post was written about what happened. The purpose was to illustrate how NOT to approach any company with a business proposal. Two things went wrong with that post. First, despite disguising the names of the company and sites involved, the original email was published. Secondly, the way it was written up made it sound like all the folks who joked around between each other about the mass email had copied in the company sender. This was interpreted by SEOMoz readers as the A-List ganging up on someone who made a mistake.
Again. The company that made the mistake was not copied into the messages sent between the recipients.
The SEOMoz post, called How Not to Request an SEO Proposal: An Epic Email Fail to 51 Top SEOs turned into a disasterous case of the Have’s in the SEO industry vs. the Have-Nots. It’s ugly and shows, once again, the divide between those who have been in the business since the 90′s and those just starting out.
Jumping to Conclusions
If you read the posts, clearly there are new people who have no idea the history of the SEO industry and who the major contributors are. There are many people besides myself who have supported the SEO industry and never asked for a dime or reward. My forums, Cre8asiteforums, has sponsored conferences, paid for courses for those who couldn’t afford them, purchased books, and volunteered untold thousands of hours teaching from 1998 to the present day at Cre8asiteforums. I personally have given away my services for free or deep discounts. I gave away the revenue generated at Cre8asiteoforums and put it right back into the SEO industry. I should not have to bring this up. I should not have to defend myself.
In the SEOMoz thread, when someone stuck up for those who had earned their way to the top, she was shot down. Many people thought the company who approached top SEO’s should have been taken under their wing and taught how to make a professional, business contact. The fact of the matter is, many of us do just that and have been for years. Sometimes we grow tired of being taken advantage of.
I did think about that suggestion but did not address it in that thread because the overall majority of the posters would have rather shot me in the forehead for being one of what they consider “hot shots”. I know they would not do their research into my contributions and hard work in the industry before crunching me up and tossing me into the trashcan.
Take My Shoes
I thought perhaps I might share what it’s like to be well known in the industry, for those who care to listen. This is what my experience has been like, supporting the SEO industry. I’m more than willing to turn my role over to any “Have-Not” who wishes to take my place.
1. Death threats in the 1990′s for exposing scams. All locks changed on the house and police protection needed for my kids. Schools notified.
2. Lawsuit threats in the 1990′s for exposing scams.
3. Stalking and cyber bullying targeting me. Documents prepared for attorney and information gathering for police should anything ever happen to me.
4. Reputation attacks by people who have never met me or done business with me.
5. Constant emails from companies and people who want me to check their web sites – for free.
6. Regular email requests to accept ads on my web site properties, but they never specify which one and do not seem to notice I don’t accept ads on my blogs. They want my stats and how much money I can earn them, regardless.
7. Regular requests asking me to try their latest “concept”, software, invention, etc. for free. They do not offer to pay me for my time.
8. Weekly phone calls from prospective clients who are actually trying to get free help rather than pay me for services.
9. I loved this tactic – if I let them put ads on my website, they’ll “submit my site to search engines” for me.
I am known for being very open minded. For example, I was invited to do usability testing for an escort site. The email contacting me was very professionally written and respectful. I replied to it because of the way I was addressed and approached.
It is wrong to believe that the SEO Have’s are unapproachable stuck up snobs. They never have been. I discovered this ages ago when I was working my way up the ladder and trying to make contacts. I was scared to death to email Jill Whalen and as far as I was concerned, Danny Sullivan was like the President of the USA and had bodyguards. I was intimidated by absolutely everyone until I went to SEO conferences and saw firsthand how ridiculously wrong I was.
I don’t buy into the A list vs. D list comparisons. Most of the membership at Cre8asiteforums is everyday folks working in the web development fields. They bring skills from marketing to programming, at all levels of experience. I learn from them as they share their experiences, no matter who they are.
So it is disappointing when that same regard is not afforded to me.
Personally, it was clear to me that the company hadn’t done their research by the simple fact that I was on the list. They hadn’t even verified that everybody on the list performed any kind of SEO services at all — let alone the specific services they were looking for.
It was ridiculous; but the response to it has been truly absurd.
This was a point I made to someone else on Twitter. I was an SEO, but switched to usability/ux in 2002. I, too, should not have been on the list, in my opinion.
What shocked me was the attitude at SEOMoz (members, not the company) of guilty by association and the continued claim that the recipients of the mass email should “get over themselves.” I had no idea the hatred for anyone who is considered a success in the SEO industry is so strong.
I keep wondering if the outcome would have been different if the company that sent the mass RFP represented an adult site. As it was, the company is in the gambling/auction business and located in Las Vegas. I couldn’t understand why such a site would want to advertise on any of my website properties, or in fact, many of the others owned by the folks who got the email.
The folks in the SEOMoz discussion seemed put off that they did not get the email, and were not part of the SEO51. I can’t understand WHY they would have wanted to be and like I said, any of one of them can have my spot on the list. I don’t desire to do anything but my work for my clients.
I read that post, and I thought there was enough arrogance flowing for everyone to share. First off, the guy who sent the thing clearly didn’t do his research, blamed his assistant when challenged, and I believe truly though he was doing the 51 SEO’s a favor by offering them his business (which wreaks of arrogance).
Second, I thought that most of the SEO’s irritation was justified, but too harshness to a high level when it wasn’t necessary. In fact, it was a little unprofessional, and a simple “No Thanks” would probably have been better. Now when the guy that sent the email in the first place copied them all again, I feel he may have gotten what he deserved.
That’s not so much what pissed me off. The thing that got to me was the suggestion that any SEO who would consider his business (in a down economy I might add) is either bad at SEO and will do a crappy job, or is hurting so much for the money that they’ll take anything they can get. Last time I checked, 100k a month isn’t chump change, and I don’t know a company around who wouldn’t be willing to deal with a jerky client for the kind of cash. If you really think about it, I bet most of us have dealt with clients who were bigger jerks and paid far less.
Anyhow, that’s my two cents. I feel you’re right on with the have and have nots thing…
I think the problem has something to do with how the list was presented by SEOmoz — representing the email exchange as “An Epic Email Fail to 51 Top SEOS” immediately defines the group as “the top 51 SEOs.” (Obviously.)
However, this is an extremely inaccurate characterization, given that not everybody on the list was even an SEO. I think that had this information been presented, it may have changed the attitude of a lot of those commenters — the degree to which the original email was misguided increases significantly from that perspective.
Hi Jacob,
I saw that too in the SEOMoz thread and was miffed. There’s this assumption that the long-timers are rolling in the dough. This is a myth and it drives me batty! Sure, I’ve heard the same stories of what some “expert” SEO’s charge per hour or for a simple 1 hr phone call. I could make my car payment in one hour if I did that! But I don’t and never have. There are some “expert”s who absolutely have a giant ego, live on tropical islands somewhere, sipping booze and their every verb costs a client $10,000. I can think of maybe 3 of them. And likely so can everyone else because they don’t hide their exploits.
Truth is, most of us are notoriously living paycheck to paycheck, or out there in the jungle trying to get new clients, and keep them, just like everyone else. It blows my mind when someone insinuates that I may be a “Have”. It REALLY turned my stomach to see that every time I expressed my opinion at SEOMoz, I was thumbed down. So was anyone with a “name”.
*I* did not write the vent email to that company. I could have used that money. Had the product somehow matched my target market or readership, or if I was selling ad space somewhere where gambling topics fit, I may have considered it, if I could have gotten past the presentation of the offer. (Too many bells went off. Been burned too many times, so no, I would not have pursued.)
For all we know, someone did contact that company. 50% of the SEO51 never got responded to any of this. So to say we’re ALL greedy selfish unethical unprofessional jerks is way off base.
Btw, it’s nice to “meet” you Jacob. Thanks for stopping by!
Joe, that’s right. And it’s why I’m so ticked off. The people who went off in that SEOMoz discussion never once bothered to get the facts. None of them contacted me to see the actual email exchange for themselves, before jumping on the hate bandwagon. What Scott did was push the rock just a little bit and the true colors of many of the SEOMoz community came out.
I think they should come to Cre8asiteforums and hang out with the “Have’s. Maybe some of them will volunteer their time helping others the same as the rest of us do,
I am glad you put this out there. I was one of the ones who felt that post shouldnt have gone live. After a couple of tweets I realised how it may snowball in the wrong direction – henc eI took the conversation direct to where it should be.
I do think the original mistake was in the formatting and lack of clarity in that post – I dont belive that the fact that the company WASNT copied into the whole thread. The first response definately sent off – thats clear by his apology, however inadequate- and I still feel that the first response was the harshest.
Kim: I think the “get over yourselves” comment was pretty valid, actually. Not that people don’t deserve the “fame” they get in the industry, but the way in which that email was handled was childish and made everyone look like a bunch of rowdy kids. I think people are getting really tired of the nasty vibe that tends to show itself in this community. Where people are picked on for making mistakes. And that spirit was epitomized in that email. You all got spammed. Welcome to the Internet. Move on.
I don’t think people were “jealous” they weren’t part of the SEO51, though people probably want to write it off as that. I think people are tired of hearing A-List SEOs talk about how cool they are, what conferences they’re going to, etc. It’s off putting. Not saying I’m not guilty of it. But it’s tired. So is the infighting, which is all that post was about. It wasn’t a lesson in how to send a good marketing email. It was a lesson in “look how cool we are and how stupid this person is”. Where was the value in publishing that?
Truthfully, that email never should have been published. “Anonymized” or not, it was a private email thread. But it gets attention. Even if they have to “remove it later” like they’ve done in the past. Weird how that keeps happening over there.
@rishil A friend on Twitter told me that by “not saying anything” to the first venter, who cc’d us, we were all guilty by association. I disagree. I’m not that man’s mother or boss and it wasn’t my place to judge or correct him. It was his reaction and opinion. The SEOMoz members attacked us personally, rather than discussing the behavior. There was no indication from them they cared to know that any of us had our own feelings and opinions about went on.
@Lisa I’m trying not to judge because then I’d be falling into the same role as the SEOMoz members who jumped to the wrong conclusions about me. I’ve never in my career ever told anyone to fuck off and the same goes with most of the SEO51 on that list.
Yes, the SEO51 (some of whom are not SEO’s) were spammed and CC’d by the spammer. One drunk person replied to the company and CC’d everyone. There was nothing any of us could do about that, but since Scott published a hacked version of the email, we all are being lambasted.
A second list of teasing began, uncopied to the spammer, and was similar to a discussion by SEO’s at any bar, Twitter, conversation on a plane or dinner. Everybody should be ashamed and spit on themselves, right?
I, too, am very tired. I dare anyone to do their research to find out how many of those SEO51 are doing well and the truth about those who are struggling badly, just like the Have-Nots who hate them.
Kim
I was on the list, a pleasant surprise I may add to be in what I would consider pro’s.
I didn’t respond I didn’t feel the need to, plus if we are on that list are all A list then surely we should be too busy and have better things to do?
Your blog post certainly got my attention, you’re not the only web marketing person to have received death threats…
Storm in a teacup…? I think so really…
I guess by the end of next week this incident will be forgotten by most…
I don’t think you were guilty by association and/or it was anyones responsibilty to say anything to anyone. Mozzers, especially UK ones were annoyed by the attitude towards the guy an assumed that the whole convo was to the company.
Saying that, some comments WERE harsh on their part too. I admit that and defend no one.
Like I said, that post shoulnd have been published, and def not on a blog with over 30k subscribers.
And yet by assuming the “Have Nots” as you called them are jealous of the “Haves”, they’re being judged the exact same way. I don’t think people are as jealous of the A-Listers as they A-Listers would like people to believe.
Most of us in this industry, even if not incredibly wealthy, are doing just fine. There’s enough work for everyone without pitting ourselves against one another. And yet that’s all we seem to do.
Trouble with comparing that email to a conversation at a bar, is that the bar conversation is private and is kept among friends. That email was published and used as a weapon to hurt someone to make others feel better about themselves. It was vindictive.
Lisa
“There’s enough work for everyone without pitting ourselves against one another. And yet that’s all we seem to do.”
Why not then initiate projects working together as a team? Is that possible for at least some of the work thats out there?
Darren: Too many cooks spoils the supper. Or something. Everyone has their own ways to do stuff, trying to turn a site into a group SEO project…would probably get messy.
Lots of tension out there!! All it takes is the right spark to light it. Lots of time in nature is a good idea!
@Lisa , I don’t think jealousy has anything to do with it. I know I didn’t say that word anywhere, but if I was interpreted that way, I disagree with me.
What I would like to uncover is what motivated the gang up at SEOMoz in the first place?
It’s pretty much agreed that the email should never have been published, and a private conversation should not be public, but we all know the industry loves it when this happens. Why?
I’m the Internet behavior lady…it’s what I test and research. Is this situation a typical case of have vs havenot (which exists all over the planet and starts when given our first cheerios), or something else that’s part of the genetic code of the SEO industry?
@Darren, I have always worked as a team with folks. It’s largely how I do business. At Cre8asiteforums, many of the regulars get t know everyone’s skills and bid on jobs together. It’s a good suggestion and already being done by some of us.
Lisa is absolutely correct that there is plenty of work for everyone and while many of the so called “experts” (whatever label you assign…I hate labels), are financially doing better than well, there are far, far more who are getting by or making enough or content and not price gouging anyone.
Hi, Kim:
Most of these trolls are paper tigers with no idea about how search engines really work. Don’t worry too much about them. You are just doing a great job at educating those that really want to learn about usability and business ethics. Keep the hard work and fight the good battle.(http://irthoughts.wordpress.com/2009/08/03/random-notes-before-school-starts/)
Cheers
Dr. E. Garcia
I really don’t get this discussion or article. What’s going on in SEO industry? Who cares? One thing is important in SEO industry, only one thing. The result.
What’s the result? You already know what the result is.
Google 1st page. That’s all. That’s it. No need to discuss anything anywhere!
This is the tough truth of SEO.
Thanks.
Seoborg